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PlayShakespeare.com: The Ultimate Free Shakespeare Resource
PlayShakespeare.com: The Ultimate Free Shakespeare Resource
PlayShakespeare.com: The Ultimate Free Shakespeare Resource
  Wednesday, 13 February 2008
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I am a senior English teacher trying to teach Hamlet for the first time. I was using the Hamlet regained website, but got confused about the nightmare Hamlet has before Act II. Mr. Jordan makes a few brief references to it but I need more than that. The other senior English teachers are not believing that the text supports the idea that Hamlet had a nightmare about Ophelia. Can Mr. Jordan or someone else provide me some textual evidence to support this idea?

I am just now getting to Act II. The students are working on a quiz today on Act I.
I believe the nightmare Mr. Jordan is referring to what occurs between I, 5 and II, 2 when Hamlet mentions to R & G:

HAM. O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space—were it not that I have bad dreams.

The dream could possibly have been about Hamlet killing Claudius and he himself was killed in the process (especially if he's unsuccessful). He likely hasn't come to terms with sacrificing his own life until III, 3.

But I'm not sure one could make the case that his nightmare was about Ophelia.
...then again, you could just switch to Q2 (like the Arden edition) and this passage is deleted out... :)
16 years ago
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#2252
BamaFlum - I don't envy you teaching Hamlet for the first time. I am concerned you are using the Hamlet regained site. I don't know where you live, but, if possible, I strongly suggest getting a copy of Shakespeare After All by Marjorie Garber. It's in paperback. Garber devotes a chapter to each play plus she provides good suggestions for further reading and lists film versions for many plays. There is also a new book, Looking for Hamlet by Marvin W. Hunt, which is good. You might find Shakespeare For Dummies (awful title) worth your time. Even Cliff's Notes for Hamlet is better than Hamlet regained.

Yes, scholars have different views about Hamlet. Notice, I refer to scholars. Jeffrey Paul Jordan is not a scholar. He isn't even a good informed reader. Mr. Jordan has no basic understanding of Elizabethan drama and theatre.

I did a quick look at his site and found many errors. For example:
1. There is no textual evidence to support his claim that Hamlet is secretly engaged to Ophelia.
2. There is no textual evidence to support his claim that "Politically, Hamlet is more popular than he knows."
3. There is no textual evidence to support his claim that Claudius was in love with Gertrude when he was young. There is no mention of his youth in the play.
4. There is nothing in the text to support his claim that the second clown is a court Bailiff.
5. There is no textual evidence that Claudius orders the death of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. Claudius gives a note to R & G address to the English king telling him to kill Hamlet. In Act V Scene 2, Hamlet tells Horatio that he took the letter and changed it to read that R and G are the ones who should be killed. Has Mr. Jordan read the play?
6. Mr. Jordan says that Amleth does not pretend to be mad. That is not true. Amleth does pretend to be mad.
7. There is no textual evidence to support the claim that Laertes kills Reynaldo.
8. Mr. Jordan claims that Hamlet has nightmares. Yes, Hamlet mentions bad dreams, but this does not mean they were nightmares. In fact, bad dreams were a symptom of the melancholic.
9. Mr. Jordan doesn't understand that Claudius does flee in the middle of the Mousetrap play because it caught his conscience.
10. Mr. Jordan claims that Polonius summons the Ghost in Act III Scene 4. The Ghost appears after Polonius has been killed. When does Mr. Jordan think Polonius summoned him?
11. There is no evidence that the Sexton clown is based on Ben Jonson. Mr. Jordan must have dreamed this.
12. I know that the Oxfordian crowd believes that the character of Hamlet is based on Edward de Vere. No serious scholar would agree.

As for Mr. Jordan's Timeline, it's not worth much. He bases it on a mention of St. Patrick. Okay, but no serious scholar would agree.
16 years ago
·
#2253
I've noticed a few errors myself. I have talked with a good friend who taugh Hamlet last year who said that some of the stuff is interesting and plausible while other stuff is just an overzealous student of Shakespeare trying to read too much into the play.

The only thing in your list I could add to is that I believe the line "And hath given countenance to his speech, my Lord, With almost all the holy vows of heaven..." makes it plausible that Hamlet has asked Ophelia to marry him but that have not formally make the announcement, hence the "almost."
16 years ago
·
#2254

8. Mr. Jordan claims that Hamlet has nightmares. Yes, Hamlet mentions bad dreams, but this does not mean they were nightmares. In fact, bad dreams were a symptom of the melancholic.


Yep, that's it exactly. These bad dreams do not refer to anything specific, but relate to Hamlet's humour.
16 years ago
·
#2255

8. Mr. Jordan claims that Hamlet has nightmares. Yes, Hamlet mentions bad dreams, but this does not mean they were nightmares. In fact, bad dreams were a symptom of the melancholic.


Yep, that's it exactly. These bad dreams do not refer to anything specific, but relate to Hamlet's humour.


That is how I interpret it. It would be normal for Hamlet to have "bad dreams" after everything he has been through the past two months.
16 years ago
·
#2256
Bama Flum,

A very good (and recent) resource for Shakespeare and his plays is The Oxford Companion to Shakespeare edited by Michael Dobson and Stanley Wells. While the hardcover edition retails for $65.00, amazon.com is currently offering it for $24.47.

http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-Companion- ... 198117353/

I hope this helps!
16 years ago
·
#2257
BamaFlum - I don't envy you teaching Hamlet for the first time. I am concerned you are using the Hamlet regained site. I don't know where you live, but, if possible, I strongly suggest getting a copy of Shakespeare After All by Marjorie Garber. It's in paperback. Garber devotes a chapter to each play plus she provides good suggestions for further reading and lists film versions for many plays. There is also a new book, Looking for Hamlet by Marvin W. Hunt, which is good. You might find Shakespeare For Dummies (awful title) worth your time. Even Cliff's Notes for Hamlet is better than Hamlet regained.


Soothsayer -- I'm confused. What, how and why is Hamlet "regained" on Mr. Jordan's website?
16 years ago
·
#2258
Paul - According to Mr. Jordan scholars writing about Hamlet are wrong in every way. He has a beef with the Arden editions of the play. He's not clear on the matter, but I assume he believes he is taking the play back from the scholars. Go to Google, type in Hamlet Regained, and you'll be taken to the site. To me, it's good for a laugh; nothing more.
16 years ago
·
#2259
Paul - According to Mr. Jordan scholars writing about Hamlet are wrong in every way. He has a beef with the Arden editions of the play.


That's strange -- I recently picked up the two volumes of the Arden 3, and with all 3 versions of Hamlet represented -- Q1, Q2 and the First Folio -- it sure seems complete. The scholarship seems meticulous to a fault.
16 years ago
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#2260
I don't know what to say. Yes, the scholarship in the Arden editions is first rate. Go to Mr. Jordan's site and say what he has to say.
16 years ago
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#2261
Forgive my ignorance, what is Arden?
16 years ago
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#2262
The Arden Editions are individual book versions of Shakespeare's plays, generally considered to be the best editions, due to their extensive analytical sections and annotation. Try them.
The Arden Editions are individual book versions of Shakespeare's plays, generally considered to be the best editions, due to their extensive analytical sections and annotation. Try them.


Naturally second in quality to the PlayShakespeare editions. :)
16 years ago
·
#2264
Forgive my ignorance, what is Arden?


The editors of Arden's third edition of Hamlet have taken a different approach than previous editors of this play. Rather than present a "conflated" text -- where a critical text is put together utilizing what is seen as the best of the Quartos and First Folio -- the texts are presented as seperate works of art, representing the play at different stages of its life. The first volume contains the Second Quarto text (1604-5) and a lengthy introduction. The second contains a shorter introduction, followed by the First Quarto text (1603) and the First Folio text (1623).

A great presentation of the issues involved that led to this radical departure can be found in The Shakespeare Wars by Ron Rosenbaum. It's recently been released in paperback, and is available at major booksellers nationwide.
Creep! :roll:


What.... no love? :P
16 years ago
·
#2266
Just schoolboy petulance from my side!
:oops:
Just have to say how good the online texts are - the Hamlet 'to be' is as clear as a bell and makes the supposed difficulties of meaning disappear!


A reminder... :)
16 years ago
·
#2268
Petard and hoisted!
15 years ago
·
#2269

8. Mr. Jordan claims that Hamlet has nightmares. Yes, Hamlet mentions bad dreams, but this does not mean they were nightmares. In fact, bad dreams were a symptom of the melancholic.


Yep, that's it exactly. These bad dreams do not refer to anything specific, but relate to Hamlet's humour.


That is how I interpret it. It would be normal for Hamlet to have "bad dreams" after everything he has been through the past two months.
Haha, my interpretation is different from everyone's. Granting that they might be expected from his melancholy, I thought bad dreams were here referring to his too broad ambition, re: R & G's earlier remarks:


Ham. Denmark's a prison.
Ros. Then is the world one.
Ham. A goodly one, in which there are many confines, wards, and dungeons, Denmark being one o'th' worst.
Ros. We think not so, my lord.
Ham. Why, then 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. To me it is a prison.
Ros. Why, then your ambition makes it one: 'tis too narrow for your mind.
Ham. O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space--were it not that I have bad dreams.
Gui. Which dreams indeed are ambition; for the very substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.

It sounds to me that Rosencrantz tries to challenge Hamlet's perspective by suggesting that, rather than Denmark being confining relative to the rest of the world, Denmark is confining relative to Hamlet's ambition. Hamlet mocks this suggestion by caricaturing it or logically extending it: Even if Hamlet were confined in a nutshell, which implies obvious real physical limitations for a human, his only reason for complaint, or the only valid problem, would be his own desire for something more.

Guildenstern's following "indeed" seems to confirm this reading.

And at any rate, as I read it, these dreams are only hypothetical. Hamlet is not admitting to having bad dreams; he's just having an argument with his "friends".
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